Comments on: BDS: a threat to peace http://harpojaeger.com/2009/11/21/bds-a-threat-to-peace/ Tue, 06 Dec 2011 01:40:52 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.2 By: A conversation with CiF Watch | harpojaeger.com http://harpojaeger.com/2009/11/21/bds-a-threat-to-peace/comment-page-1/#comment-1479 A conversation with CiF Watch | harpojaeger.com Mon, 14 Mar 2011 20:11:24 +0000 http://harpojaeger.com/?p=1682#comment-1479 [...] Street smear video broke (see my last post), CiF Watch tweeted a link to it, saying I was pro-BDS (I’m not).  I replied, and over the next hour or so, we had a conversation about anti-semitism and [...] [...] Street smear video broke (see my last post), CiF Watch tweeted a link to it, saying I was pro-BDS (I’m not).  I replied, and over the next hour or so, we had a conversation about anti-semitism and [...]

]]> By: Israeli Apartheid Week: Triumph of the Fringes « New Voices http://harpojaeger.com/2009/11/21/bds-a-threat-to-peace/comment-page-1/#comment-546 Israeli Apartheid Week: Triumph of the Fringes « New Voices Thu, 26 Aug 2010 05:23:39 +0000 http://harpojaeger.com/?p=1682#comment-546 [...] belief that the only way to be pro-Israel or pro-Palestinian is to be unequivocally pro-peace.  I see BDS as counterproductive to the dialogue on peace. So, too, do I see the Israel apologists’ point of view.  IAW gives both of these groups yet [...] [...] belief that the only way to be pro-Israel or pro-Palestinian is to be unequivocally pro-peace.  I see BDS as counterproductive to the dialogue on peace. So, too, do I see the Israel apologists’ point of view.  IAW gives both of these groups yet [...]

]]> By: Don’t hate the haters | harpojaeger.com http://harpojaeger.com/2009/11/21/bds-a-threat-to-peace/comment-page-1/#comment-169 Don’t hate the haters | harpojaeger.com Thu, 15 Apr 2010 00:00:25 +0000 http://harpojaeger.com/?p=1682#comment-169 [...] condescend, and ignore those who they disagree with (incidentally, the exact same tactics I decry when used by some anti-Zionists).  Maybe if the Jewish community were willing to perceive a vigorous, respectful, and honest [...] [...] condescend, and ignore those who they disagree with (incidentally, the exact same tactics I decry when used by some anti-Zionists).  Maybe if the Jewish community were willing to perceive a vigorous, respectful, and honest [...]

]]> By: In which Alan Dershowitz displays less understanding of Israel Apartheid Week than most college students (and specifically Roberta Goldman of Brown University) | Jewschool http://harpojaeger.com/2009/11/21/bds-a-threat-to-peace/comment-page-1/#comment-168 In which Alan Dershowitz displays less understanding of Israel Apartheid Week than most college students (and specifically Roberta Goldman of Brown University) | Jewschool Sat, 06 Mar 2010 21:09:56 +0000 http://harpojaeger.com/?p=1682#comment-168 [...] are plenty of reasons to oppose Israel Apartheid Week and the BDS movement.  I oppose them because I believe that BDS is a regressive tactic and that the language of Israel Apartheid Week is divisive and inaccurate (the same way I view the [...] [...] are plenty of reasons to oppose Israel Apartheid Week and the BDS movement.  I oppose them because I believe that BDS is a regressive tactic and that the language of Israel Apartheid Week is divisive and inaccurate (the same way I view the [...]

]]> By: Harpo http://harpojaeger.com/2009/11/21/bds-a-threat-to-peace/comment-page-1/#comment-167 Harpo Sat, 26 Dec 2009 23:18:43 +0000 http://harpojaeger.com/?p=1682#comment-167 Mike, I think the issue is that based on historical evidence, we know that when Israel feels its security is threatened, it responds with disproportionate force, e.g. Operation Cast Lead, or the separation barriers. Both of these examples constitute unfair, illegal, and immoral collective punishment of civilians for the actions of an armed and powerful minority. While boycotting products made in illegal settlements sends a clear message that the international community will not stand for such a flagrant violation of international law, boycotting Israel as a whole puts Israel in the position of perceiving an existential threat. Whether or not this is what we actually intend (I don't advocate dismantling the State of Israel, even though I oppose its existence as a religious government), that's what Israel will see, and for us to act anyway is going to endanger the lives of many more civilians who will likely bear the brunt of a further entrenched occupation For too long, Israel has believed (falsely) that negotiating for peace would weaken it strategically. But that's not the case. Historical data shows that during periods when real peace talks have been underway, attacks on Israel from the occupied territories have decreased dramatically. The last thing we need to do right now is deepen the impression that the Israeli government and AIPAC have that the peace process is a threat to Israel's existence. Mike, I think the issue is that based on historical evidence, we know that when Israel feels its security is threatened, it responds with disproportionate force, e.g. Operation Cast Lead, or the separation barriers. Both of these examples constitute unfair, illegal, and immoral collective punishment of civilians for the actions of an armed and powerful minority. While boycotting products made in illegal settlements sends a clear message that the international community will not stand for such a flagrant violation of international law, boycotting Israel as a whole puts Israel in the position of perceiving an existential threat. Whether or not this is what we actually intend (I don’t advocate dismantling the State of Israel, even though I oppose its existence as a religious government), that’s what Israel will see, and for us to act anyway is going to endanger the lives of many more civilians who will likely bear the brunt of a further entrenched occupation
For too long, Israel has believed (falsely) that negotiating for peace would weaken it strategically. But that’s not the case. Historical data shows that during periods when real peace talks have been underway, attacks on Israel from the occupied territories have decreased dramatically. The last thing we need to do right now is deepen the impression that the Israeli government and AIPAC have that the peace process is a threat to Israel’s existence.

]]> By: michaelfiory http://harpojaeger.com/2009/11/21/bds-a-threat-to-peace/comment-page-1/#comment-166 michaelfiory Sat, 26 Dec 2009 19:37:35 +0000 http://harpojaeger.com/?p=1682#comment-166 Harpo- This is Michael Fiorentino from PVPA. Phil told me you had a blog, and I felt compelled to check it out. I must say I was very disappointed with this post. You provide no context to the emergence of the international BDS movement. You do not even mention that the initiative came from civil society organizations in Palestine! In 2005, 171 Palestinian ngos put out the call for BDS, and have explicitly modeled their approach on the experience of the anti-apartheid struggle in South Africa, which also included the use of BDS as a political tactic. It seems bizarre that someone putting forth an argument regarding the viability of BDS would leave this out. It also seems as if your entire argument stems from a few unpleasant interactions you had with those at the meeting who disagreed with you. While this is regrettable, it should in no way blur your opinion on the matter. BDS is not something confined to the fringes of the student movement. Dockers in South Africa have refused to handle Israeli goods. French trade unions have affirmed their solidarity with BDS. Their is a growing cry from within the US trade union movement that calls for the AFL-CIO to sever all ties with the Histadrut and to divest from Israel. You should take these developments into account. No honest proponent of the BDS tactic would tell you that they have found the magic bullet, the end all be all tactic that will bring a just peace to the region. It should be seen as complementary to the popular struggle of Palestinians under occupation, to the activity of the brave Israeli activists who have been organizing weekly protests against the ethnic cleansing of Sheik Jarah, and to the struggle of the Arab masses against regimes that act as junior partners to U.S imperialism and the Israeli occupation. (The government Egypt comes to mind in light of its recent decision to deny the international delegation organized for the Gaza Freedom March access to the Gaza Strip) It should be seen as complementary to the actions of the Viva Palestina Convoy, an international delegation of activists who on several occasions have broken the siege on Gaza to deliver much needed humanitarian aid. In short, it should be seen within the context of a larger totality, one that encompasses many social groups and tactics. To dismissively write off the international BDS movement, which has the support of figures such as Archbishop Desmond Tutu, is absurd. When asked about the boycott movement against apartheid South Africa, Tutu said, “The importance of the boycott was not only economic but also moral.” At the end of the day, it was the self activity of black South Africans that brought down apartheid. We should assume the same about the Palestinian popular struggle. No one thinks BDS will leave the IDF without bullets to murder Palestinians, or without bulldozers to destroy homes. But creating an international consciousness that rejects the illegal occupation is something the BDS movement CAN accomplish. I think you should re-think your position. I look forward to reading your response. http://www.bdsmovement.net/ Harpo-

This is Michael Fiorentino from PVPA. Phil told me you had a blog, and I felt compelled to check it out. I must say I was very disappointed with this post. You provide no context to the emergence of the international BDS movement. You do not even mention that the initiative came from civil society organizations in Palestine! In 2005, 171 Palestinian ngos put out the call for BDS, and have explicitly modeled their approach on the experience of the anti-apartheid struggle in South Africa, which also included the use of BDS as a political tactic. It seems bizarre that someone putting forth an argument regarding the viability of BDS would leave this out. It also seems as if your entire argument stems from a few unpleasant interactions you had with those at the meeting who disagreed with you. While this is regrettable, it should in no way blur your opinion on the matter. BDS is not something confined to the fringes of the student movement. Dockers in South Africa have refused to handle Israeli goods. French trade unions have affirmed their solidarity with BDS. Their is a growing cry from within the US trade union movement that calls for the AFL-CIO to sever all ties with the Histadrut and to divest from Israel. You should take these developments into account.

No honest proponent of the BDS tactic would tell you that they have found the magic bullet, the end all be all tactic that will bring a just peace to the region. It should be seen as complementary to the popular struggle of Palestinians under occupation, to the activity of the brave Israeli activists who have been organizing weekly protests against the ethnic cleansing of Sheik Jarah, and to the struggle of the Arab masses against regimes that act as junior partners to U.S imperialism and the Israeli occupation. (The government Egypt comes to mind in light of its recent decision to deny the international delegation organized for the Gaza Freedom March access to the Gaza Strip) It should be seen as complementary to the actions of the Viva Palestina Convoy, an international delegation of activists who on several occasions have broken the siege on Gaza to deliver much needed humanitarian aid. In short, it should be seen within the context of a larger totality, one that encompasses many social groups and tactics.

To dismissively write off the international BDS movement, which has the support of figures such as Archbishop Desmond Tutu, is absurd. When asked about the boycott movement against apartheid South Africa, Tutu said, “The importance of the boycott was not only economic but also moral.” At the end of the day, it was the self activity of black South Africans that brought down apartheid. We should assume the same about the Palestinian popular struggle. No one thinks BDS will leave the IDF without bullets to murder Palestinians, or without bulldozers to destroy homes. But creating an international consciousness that rejects the illegal occupation is something the BDS movement CAN accomplish. I think you should re-think your position. I look forward to reading your response.

http://www.bdsmovement.net/

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